May 2013
1 post
The One You Feed
An old Cherokee told his grandson: "My son, there is a battle between two wolves inside us all. One is Evil. It is anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies & ego. The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, empathy & truth. The boy thought about it, and asked; "Granfather, which wolf wins?" And the grandfather quietly replied: "the one you feed".
April 2013
0 posts
Temporary: For Amy
* Amy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
whatever poisons or toxins we dump into the planet, came form the planet originally
you're a pretty crappy Captain_Planet, you know that?
lol
good thing amy wasn't here
you'd have bumps on your head
its not as if we ship pollution in from jupiter
we might create a world that doesnt support human life for ourselves but thats ok
the planet isnt about to drop into a black hole, it will recover
representing Captain_Planet that was is a capital offense in her eyes
haha
* starshine has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
ok.. you're warming up now
you're getting a bit of carlin in there, but it's not as bad as i thought
however, it's still a bad attitude
a distraction
well what effort needs to be put into saving the planet depends on what you expect from it. if you want the planet to be a home for humans then yeah lets do something to regrow some trees or clean up the water
humanity (and many of the species we're going to have killed, if we don't shape up) is worth saving
see, now you beat me to that!
you're revving up, captain!
keep going!
the distraction is thinking we have any right to fix the 'damage' we have done in the first place
ok, now you're sinking
the damage in our eyes is the potential effect it could have on future human or animal life
yes.... go on....
haha, ive nothing to prove to you
* n|ne rolls eyes
if you have a point of view then lets hear it
it's just my way of interacting lol
don't take it personally
i'm guessing you don't have kids, eh?
* starshine (starshine@8AF02B.DBCBA5.94D3E3.BDEB16) has joined #Buddhism
probably a pretty crappy life, too, right?
humans cannot do more damage to 'nature' than say a violent volcanic erruption, if you view this planet as something that belongs to humans
well, if you consider the surface of Venus to be nature, then yes, you're right.
n|ne as i said ive nothign to prove to you, how you can possible pressume anything about me is mind boggling
if you don't understand how it's possible for humanity to cause that kind of environment here, you don't really understand math very well
lol you don't get the whole "it's just my way of interacting, don't take it personally" bit, do you?
[02:26:54] probably a pretty crappy life, too, right?
yes, that was an honest guess
is that how you interact with total strangers?
not judging you
i'm asking
is it true?
you pressume they have a poor life, essentially because they disagree with you?
no, i didn't presume, i guessed, hoping for an answer
it really doesn't matter
wanna answer?
was i right or wrong?
i guessed that because... i figure only a person miserable about his life would embrace your views. that's all.
in my eyes you are wrong
you don't think your life is crappy?
help me understand then
* Abhaya (Abhaya@5D5F19.24FDDA.35328C.8E9A49) has joined #Buddhism
i was goign to say, the only relevance my quality of life could possibly have to my views would be you see them as being pessimisitic
the fundemental difference between you and i appears to be you see the planet as a garden or a home (or a larder) for humans to do with as they please
how did you come up with the idea that humanity as an entity has no right to correct the environmental damage it's caused
Hello Abhaya
* n|ne waves and grinz at Abhaya
Hello.
for all we know, the planet mightve pushed for human life in order to create lots of plastic and nuclear waste, which itll use for something else
yeah, i read that hilarious idea, too
really really funny
the point is n|ne, that the enviromental damage you talk about is only damaging to us as humans
all life
hello nine my super little
and my point, earlier, was that you're wrong.
hey starshine
any news of our friend fabrizio?
you don't understand even the simplest math.
(if you believe that)
not ALL life
yes, all life
sit down
im not saying im happy about what we've done to the world by any stretch
lol
we are killing off our own planet every day
n|ne help me understand the simplest math lol
i can't
go on
ok, i'll try
do you understand business math at all?
like... interest?
Hello EnterNickName
the famous 7% video is in my bookmarks somewhere
hey i'm here to do the Bruce Lee move
yes
is this the right chan?
you do?
i want to do the move
yes i understand
Bruce or Jet will be fine
do you accept that the vast areas of ice at the poles not only reflect a lot of energy from the sun, but also lock a lot of methane in the ground?
i mean, do you accept that that's a truth?
yes i accept that
of course
ive a feeling about to repeat myself
im*
i just escaped from the mental care house
and you understand (and accept as a truth) that all the known carbon-energy producing resources in the world are already in the worlds economy and there is no way short of economic or political collapse to stop them from getting into the air?
anyone here also is a mental case?
they looking for me from helicopter now
and that people are searching out more carbon-energy resources constantly?
i'm jokeing
yes n|ne i accept all of that
well, enjoy yourself till they come for you
yes
nine are you here to do the Bruce Lee move also?
carry on
is that it?
so here's the question where you answer no: Do you know how high the global average temperature will rise as a result of all this, and do you you know the effects on life of that? Do you know how the atmospheric system will respond to all that? do you know what the outcome will be?
can i talk now
this planet hasn't always supported life
it won't always
nine is my little wife
i protect her romance her all day
but you can't state with such confidence that lol
she's waiting 35 girls from me
doctors say
shall i go back to what i said from the start
we can't hurt nature?
yes, i agree that from a certain point of view, you and your favorite commedian are correct - we can't hurt nature. Hell, the surface of the moon is natural.
We can't hurt nature.
We could end all life on earth.
the enviroment and nature are not the same thing. the enviroment we have at the moment is whats required for humans and other animals to survivie on this planet. nature is a force thats existed since the dawn of the universe
i don't personally believe that would happen, but i don't say we can't.
yes
i agree
all of these problems regarding energy consumption or turning the oceans into toxic soup, is only damaging in the context of human life and the life of other animals on this planet
there i say... prove it
you didnt ask me why am i not out saving the human race form enviromental suicide
you asked me why am i nto out saving the planet
oh so all this is about your anal pickieness?
lol
short of the sun throwing neptune at us or something, the planet will be fine
here i thought you had a point
why are you like that?
i think youll find all of this was stems from your need to make a point about somebody calling themselves Captain_Planet and not being a greenpeace ninja super soldier instead of going to sleep early
lol
for the 9th time... i was JOKING
don't take it personally!
[02:17:20] hi EnterNickName - thanks. you too.[02:17:55] sounds restful, Captain_Planet [02:17:55] but ... don't you have a lot of work to do?[02:17:55] saving nature and all?[02:17:55] how can you take a night off from that?[02:18:33] oh dont worry about nature, nature will be fine ï·¯
no, you only got mad when i guessed that you had a crappy life
[02:21:45] you're a pretty crappy Captain_Planet, you know that?[02:21:46] lol[02:21:46] good thing amy wasn't here
poor little you
the big mean integer called you names!
you then went on to ask me if i had a crappy life
youre showing yourself up now
Captain_Planet, I apologize for calling you a crappy Captain_Planet
ive made a mockery of all your business math bluster etc. youve typed out a load of irrelevant nonsense
need more?
do you apologise for asking if i have a crappy life, too?
apologize for guessing that, you mean? no
it's pretty clear that was a brilliant guess
you're a miserable fuck lol
but at least you make an interesting little debate opponent
however... i'm bored with it now, so... goodbye.
youre just in a huff now lol
* n|ne giggles and nod
March 2013
2 posts
Death of a Mango
my mango tree is dying
i think there's nothing i can do about it
sad faces
it was so large and full of life
then i transplanted it into a larger pot
and over the course of 6 months, all its leaves have fallen
and it died
or, well, almost all
those that haven't look very very bad
80% of it is gone
no hope for reviving it?
* n|ne shrugs
i'm not sure i want it
i look at it and think... what if it dies?
maybe i'll be heart-broken
or maybe i'll just have one less worry
anyway, there's nothing i can do
I see.
i haven't got the heart to pull it up
shake off it's roots
toss it out
i don't know whether to water it, put some kind of plant food on it
i'm guessing re-potting it would be bad lol
so day after day, i sit and watch it wither... the leaves get crunchy, or just fall off.
try to save it, then
what do you recommend?
i could talk to it, i guess.
i could say "Look, little mango... Do you want this?"
i could say "If you want this, you're going to have to make an effort."
I'm not much of a plant expert. Let me call my dad.
lol no
* n|ne hugs you
you're very sweet
October 2012
1 post
They Live
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKEtft8TGEo
It satirizes the greedy consumerism of the west
So bad that alien invaders have taken over and taken away the rights of the people to make their own decisions.
Everyone has been dulled and is being brainwashed by subliminal messages of advertising that instill a sense of obedience in the alien masters.
People have so been dulled they can't notice what is going on
They have become apathetic to the plight of the people
All because of a greedy culture of buying and selling products
The sunglasses show what the real world is like and makes things clear.
and the movie is called "They"?
They Live
by John Carpenter who also directed Halloween and The Thing
"Much of the film echoes themes of mindless consumption, which is revealed to be engineered through the media and advertising. The parallel to American society was noted by social policy researcher and historian Paul Street."
Sounds brilliant, but looks too silly for my tastes. I'd prefer a less goofy presentation of the idea.
September 2012
1 post
Gaze on my Sadness
gaze
haha
haha
do u respect gaze
or no
lol
??
i neither respect nor disrespect that particular classification.
oh
so
ask me about an individual who's gay and I'll answer for that one only.
if u are talking to a gay
do u mind?
lol
one of my favorite chatters is gay.
how's that?
is it a problem
cool
i feel relaxed now
dude
i was scared and shy
lol
about what?
maybe u not wanting to chat with me
as you wish lol
lol
so
how old r u
44
and you?
17
u like my age?
i dunno lol
lol
u have kids?
i guess it's a fine age
* Wednesday sighs
yes, i do
aw
how old
i have three kids - a girl 18, a boy 17, and a boy 14
aw
so ur boy is my age
seems so
hey can i ask u a serious thing?
you can ask
would u kick out ur son out of home if u knew he is gay? :(
lol
no
that's pretty pathetic
hm
ur a good dad
well..
but if i were that kind of person... it's be ME with the problem. not my kid.
hm
it happened to me :(
yeah, i kinda guessed you were going to say that.
hm
:(
u know
i really feel
bad
i feel i dont have a daddy
:S
i dont know i feel reall sad
i never done any bed :(
bad
yeah, it's a sad thing
hm
its been
like
2 years
he never spoke to me and never saw me after that day
he doesnt want to see me even :(
he really sad bad shit about me that day
fuck i really cry when i remember :(
the ones we love always hurt us the most
hm
imagine
i was 15
and i had to live on my own
:(
do ur kids live with u ?
no, with their mom
aw why
why do i feel i really want a hug from u know an older guy
lol
it wouldn't help you
what should i do
maybe meditation would help you.
help me with what
can u be my daddy ?
lol
i'm pretty sure i can't give you what you're looking for.
?
yes u can
can u take care of me
i don't see how.
?
just make me feel am not alone
:(
well, i can talk to you.
that's about all.
i seriously doubt whether you want the kind of conversation I'm capable of giving, though.
can u call me
lol
son?
i don't even know you, sonny boy.
:(
u dont know how much am sad
your attention is too internalized.
you look inside, find your bad memories.
what u mean
you pick them up and hold them and let them make you feel sad.
you dwell on them and wish and dream.
then you cry because your wishes and dreams don't come true.
so you do it all over again.
:(
it's your choice.
what should i do
tell me what to do
put your attention outside yourself.
look out into the world.
like how
tell me
u r 44
am still young
teach me
find art... politics... charity... sports...
lol
i'm teaching, man. i'm teaching.
a bf?
but to be successfus, you have to adopt the lesson.
i think you should start with things you can control, to be honest.
a bf is a free agent
so
it's more likely to give you pain, the condition you're in now.
its not good to have a bf
i didn't say that
it'll be good for you when you're stronger
it's bad for you now, while you're weak.
first, find something you can control.
pick anything.
what interests you?
sports?
soccer
ok
do you play?
yea
when i get hit
i start crying :(
well... maybe you should try something gentler.
they call me sissy :(
oh, and then you stash that away with all your sadness, so you can take it out again and again.
?
it even ended
i don't mean to sound cruel
up
peeing on me :(
all these dicks
wth?
you should file a complaing. a lawsuit, even.
complaint*
they threatened me
dude
they told me dare u tell anyone
why is that
is it
that i have blonde hair and blue eyes
:(
?
???
i dunno what to say.
you're determined to be sad.
i can't help you.
ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
fuck u asshole gay whore
ur mother is my sluty bithc
and u r such a gay
dickhead
whore
haha
fuck u asshole
i've been waiting for that!
rofl
* Guest_339 has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
August 2012
1 post
Mindfulness, Emotion, and Necessary Lessons
What do you need?
what i told you earlier
about the tension
watching it all happen makes me tense, so i need to learn why and correct tht
a great soldier is never aggressive; a good fighter is never angry;
maybe a good ~ is never tense
lol
Tense is not bad you know. It signals that there is a problem. And it signals that solutions can be devised.
i don't have a problem with emotions - only with letting them control me
Your emotions are turned inwards.
i don't know what that means
* Amy_ has quit (Connection closed)
I meant that, I think, it's a theory, your emotions are um, how to explain. You order your emotions inwards. Inside of you. It's a very strong aspect of you. You have to have order in your own emotions. And only after that are you precoccupied to deal with the outside world.
it's more like this: I used to act immediately on my emotions, and the result was that my world was ripped apart.
i ruined a lot
Yes, because you neglected ordering your emotions inside, maybe.
i suspect that overcoming the effects of the tension will come from understanding its cause and will have the effect of disapating the tension in these kinds of situations
Tension, like pain is a warning.
yes, i understand your point
but if i don't need the warning, maybe i won't have to feel it so much.
for example...
for example, yesterday i was cooking on my griddle
i touched the back of the griddle to move it forward and, instantly remembering that this could be foolish, pulled my hand away
it's a good thing, too, because the metal was very hot
the pain didn't come for over a second, but it was severe
had i waited for the pain, i'd have taken serious damage to my finger
as it was, it hurt for quite a while, but didn't blister
the pain was bearable
so... yes, we learn from pain, and from tension, to avoid the circumstances that cause them, or to move properly to minimize any damage
the end.
lol
Yes.
Exactly.
Lol.
But you want to get rid of that tension.
But you see the outer problems based on how much it affects your feelings.
i also want to develope the mindfulness that keeps me from touching the hot metal in the first place.
develop
Hm, okay.
:) you understand
you're right though - it's good that we can't just cut off the things we don't like. they're there to teach us.
June 2012
1 post
The Guru and the Child who Loved Sweets
well.. a couple went to their guru asking for help ..to cure their child of his obsession with sweets
the guru asked 'em to return after a few weeks...
cause the parents requested him to speak to the child
after a few days the guru called 'em and asked to bring the child and spoke to him..
the child cured.. asked why they were asked to return after a few days, the guru said that he'd to first of all work on himself, for he was as well a lover of sweets!
April 2012
2 posts
What is our one demand?
where is the topic?
oh
it's gone
i'll find it
* nine has changed the topic to: http://fryeblog.blog.lib.mcmaster.ca/files/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-poster.jpg
My current favorite picture in the world
it's awesome
i think it's very beautiful and really stands for the state of the world in a weird way
I keep thinking how fast that monstrous, raging bull must be going - jerking around, accelerating in all directions, all that raw, mad, unbridled power; smoke all around, PeaceKeepers marching in behind; But there on top, calm, poised, tender, elegant, disciplined, she magically keeps her place.
The bull can't shake her any more than he could shake watchful eyes resting on him, following him wherever he goes.
ooh
really
yes it is this way
What is our one demand?
I say, our one demand should be not to the 1%, but to the 99% - Watch. Never stop watching. Pay attention. Speak out. Do Your Part in Democracy!!!
You have no idea what i'm talking about, huh?
lol
lol
I do
have a clue
someday i'll make a speech in front of a huge crowd.
And a dish-washer.
i got a new lawn mower
a zero turn
its fast
nice
i sure could use a big mower where i am
and a tiller
and a tractor
and three gorgeous redheads
and a gibson SG
and a wicked cool space ship like Serenety or the millennium falcon
and a working chainsaw
and a personal seceretary to keep track of all my receipts and do my taxes and get good tax breaks for me and keep track of where all my stuff is because i fucking lose everything - i just set it down and then i can't find it - and to make sure i pay all my bills on time and don't get overdrawn (because i always forget to pay stuff) and to make sure i'm eating healthy especially when i'm traveling a lot (because i tend to eat potato chips and candy bars for too many meals when I'm traveling) and to read to me aloud from whichever books i pick while i'm doing things like gardening or dishes.
February 2012
1 post
The Comfort of Hell
oh yeah, you know what i dreamt? i dreamt i went swimming in a pool, and i was drifting along for a bit, under the water, in de middle part of the pool, when i noticed some women, floating around, aimlessly, lost, then i went deeper under the water, to the bottom, and you know what was there? hell, and i realized, that there was a certain comfort and allure to being there, and that if i wasn't careful i could never again rise to the surface, at that moment my fear jolted me up, up!! and as i resurfaced, i was so relieved.... that's it!
wow
that's a pretty amazing dream
i love the bit about "certain comfort"
yeah, i thought so too! that's why i remembered
so true, isn't it?
yeah
November 2011
6 posts
The Old Master Fights
There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him.
One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent.
He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move.
Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior's challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind.
But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed.
Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. "How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?"
"If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it," the master replied, "to whom does the gift belong?"
Mindfulness and Consciousness
people talk about mindfullness as if it's something a person can do...
but something under there is strongly fighting against ME being "mindful"
i can't just decide to be mindful
i'm not in control of that.
i can grasp it for a moment or two
You can still practice it.
Grasp might not be the best approach
that's my point
With ongoing practice, there's no need to grasp.
It grows ever more natural.
that doesn't seem to be the case for me
How do you practice?
mindfulness only comes when i work, or chat, or attempt to keep it.
When doesn't it come?
with work, it's variable. it comes a while, and i'm mindful of my work, but sometimes it doesn't stay long, and my mind wanders - other times i work very successfully.
with chat, i'm always right here. i never daydream. my mind is fully on the conversations i'm having... the situation at hand.
Hm...
in life, though... my mind wonders constantly. cleaning the house, cooking, living, playing, gardening...
The way I see it, mindfulness extends beyond the mind being fully on something.
always always, i'm in a daydream, until i think "i want to be mindful"
so i practice... try to grasp it.
it's my only option now, i think.
Do you see the subtle ways you affect others and others affect you?
i see how the conversation here went... since i said i stole the neurology book.
i guess i don't understand that question
With your work, do you see how your effort translates into the task and the task reverberates back outward to you?
Mindfulness includes the exchange.
exchanging what?
Influence.
* Simply-Me has quit (Connection closed)
I see that in chat
not in work
work is like a puzzle i solve. like soduku or a croissword puzzle.
i don't see it in life, either. i don't see how doing dishes influences me.
You add or contribute something to a task, and it in turn provides some utility to another person, or to a future self. In doing so, it may return to you by way of a sense of accomplishment, or frustration. Burden, relief.
oh
well, then... i guess i do see it in work and in dishes.
it seems just like routine, though, in those cases... so maybe it's not mindfulness.
well, clearly i don't understand what's really meant by mindfullness.
Tough call.
i thought it was presence of mind...
That, but not merely that.
i think when my mind is wondering, lost in a daydream, or planning the future or remembering the past, i'm not mindful.
that's been my belief, anyway.
If just presence of mind, it could be just as easily called attention.
yes
i always thought that if i could pay attention to the fact that i'm paying attention, i could learn someting. but this never lasts long.
i'm paying attention, then... isuddenly realize that i've been daydreaming for quite some time.
In the contemplative traditions I've been trained in (Chan, Dao, Rujia), we tend to extend presence of mind to awareness of all the ripples in the water.
It encompasses the former in all its richness, but includes an additional element.
i guess i don't understand. i thought you'd say more.
Oh.
I'm sorry.
ahhh
lol it's ok :)
take your time
With the Dao, as you know, dualities are reconciled.
Opposites interact mutually.
right
A stone in water causes ripples on the surface.
And in turn, liquid erodes rock.
hmm... well, i know that in theory... don't really understand how it relates to life (other than the obvious)
Something so soft can slowly dissolve something so hard. And something solid will displace the liquid around it.
yes
that i get... principles like that
The interactions, exchanges we encounter in daily life work the same way.
yes, i understand that
Mind may seems so individual. Sometimes rigid, sometimes bending. People tend to think of it as confined, a totally internal process.
One can develop mindfulness of what is occuring at this moment, but this is not mindfulness it all its fullness (and emptiness).
To see how this moment is not just one instant in time, but instead a continuum over which all things are stretched, takes it one step further.
This moment is not isolated. This mind is not separate from the world outside.
This moment flows into the next. This mind's activities spill over into the lives of others.
The exchange becomes increasingly clear.
The Buddha taught emptiness as the interconnectedness of all things.
it seems very obvious to me when i think about it, thought it's not always on my mind
Things are empty of anything purely "self" in nature. They do not stand alone. They are not isolated.
yes.. i agree.. everything in my brain came from outside, one way or another
and every action i make influences soemthing outside... i get your ripple effect now.
i understand, i think.
Laozi taught the interrelatedness of things that appear opposite and irreconcilable. Kongzi taught the interrelatedness of relationships, familial, communal, and political.
(Laozi is how we say Lao-tzu and Kongzi is how we say Confucius)
syes
i should say that, too
laozi
it's easier to type
i didn't know kongzi is confucius
Zi is an honorific.
yes
Zhuangzi, Laozi, Kongzi.
i read Lao Tzu = "Old Master"
Yes!
well, i agree to all this completely, and i see it clearly wehn i think about it.
still.. i feel discontent with the control my subconscious exerts over my actions
:(
well, it's not that bad
i mean, it's not destroying my life
or even damaging, any more
it destroyed my marriage
I'm sorry it had that effect. :(
thanks, but
i understand that it takes some pain to learn some lessons
The path is not an easy one.
i just want to... learn without pain from now on
my subconscious frustrates me frequently
i'll walk away from somehting on the stove, and completely forget
it burns
Same goes for relationships sometimes.
i feel frustrated. this happens over and over. i say "ok, it's on the stove, i'll grab my glasses and come right back"
i promise myself to keep things where they belong, not just set them anywhere... but it doesn't work. i'm constantly loooking for things. my phone, glasses, pen...
whatever
sometimes i feel that there's a little demon in me trying to sabotage my day
also, yes, in relating to people, i'm often not at my best
I know I've asked it before, but do you maintain a daily meditation practice?
This might help.
it's ineffective
i daydream
yes, i do try
Have you received instruction from a teacher?
but it's no different from saying "i'll reserve half an hour per day to daydream"
no, no teacher, just books
i try to do vipassana
Books can only do so much for us. :(
i loove chi gong in the morning
and lately, i'm doing tai chi in the evening
Heaven and Hell
The old monk sat by the side of the road. With his eyes closed, his legs crossed and his hands folded in his lap, he sat. In deep meditation, he sat.
Suddenly his zazen was interrupted by the harsh and demanding voice of a samurai warrior. "Old man! Teach me about heaven and hell!"
At first, as though he had not heard, there was no perceptible response from the monk. But gradually he began to open his eyes, the faintest hint of a smile playing around the corners of his mouth as the samurai stood there, waiting impatiently, growing more and more agitated with each passing second.
"You wish to know the secrets of heaven and hell?" replied the monk at last. "You who are so unkempt. You whose hands and feet are covered with dirt. You whose hair is uncombed, whose breath is foul, whose sword is all rusty and neglected. You who are ugly and whose mother dresses you funny. You would ask me of heaven and hell?"
The samurai uttered a vile curse. He drew his sword and raised it high above his head. His face turned to crimson and the veins on his neck stood out in bold relief as he prepared to sever the monk's head from its shoulders.
"That is hell," said the old monk gently, just as the sword began its descent. In that fraction of a second, the samurai was overcome with amazement, awe, compassion and love for this gentle being who had dared to risk his very life to give him such a teaching. He stopped his sword in mid-flight and his eyes filled with grateful tears.
"And that," said the monk, "is heaven."
: )
Veteran's Day
i'm sipping my tea and trying to prepare myself for Veteran's Day in the USA
i have a premonition that I'm going to get very annoyed today.
what do you do on the Veteran's Day?
You don't have a facebook, do you?
mourn the fellow soldiers dead on a hill back there in Vietnam?
I do
I actually have two
accounts
well, here's what I know about my American friends
'cause you meant THAT facebook, right?
most of them will "Support" their veterans by posting some dumb-fuck yellow ribbon on their facebook
oh my, so disturbing
I don't get this, really...
most veterans are trained professionals who took the risk in exchange of a paycheck
but probably that's not that true in the US
bah...
soldiers and veterans are just people - they do good things and bad things, smart things and dumb
my point is that there's no national celebratory day in favour of retired lawyers or social workers or teachers
why retired soldiers?
they just took a calculated risk, in the case of professionals
i'm not supporting or disparaging Veteran's Day as an institution... I'm annoyed by empty expressions of support itself
* The_Hatter shrugs
i don't want to "Support", either falsely or genuinely, any group more than another
i'm annoyed by propaganda and people's blind following of it.
right
that's annoying
also yellow isn't the best colour
and more importantly, their belief that clicking buttons to post yellow ribbons is a genuine expression of support.
I'd choose red for veterans
to each its own ribbon
they have pink ribbons for breast cancer, too
there are meanings for other colors, but i don't know them
I know that lung cancer has no colour assigned
mostly because lung cancer is associated with smoking, ie a personal (supposedly informed) choice, more than a disgrace
people get sucked into these unhealthy things... smoking, the army, whatever... there's no point in saying "informed choice" or 'calculated risk'
they are where they are - even if or even though it's their own fault, they may still need support of some kind.
stupid images of colourful ribbons are not support
well, if you start smoking there are huge capitalised writings on every pack underlining hard enough that sure as hell it's not going to make you feel any better in the long term. Idem, if you enroll in the military, the risk of dying (and killing) is evident since the first trainings, methinks
you have a hard time accepting that other people don't have the same kind of consciousness that you have, huh?
the fact that Joe was born in a patriotic family and that his society brainwashed him to the point that he joined the military and died in Iraq doesn't mean that it wasn't his choice
but if he comes home with a missing leg, and the government that promised to take care of his medical bills cuts it's funding...
then a yellow ribbon is as useful as a pile of shit.
absolutely. I completely agree on this
so .. that's the frustration i'm expressing.
ah, okay.
fuck yellow ribbons - let's see some news stories about such cases, and let's call our politicians.
I don't like the idea that veterans or soldiers are heroes
that's what, I think, I was trying to say
i don't either
so, we're both frustrated
american soldiers are basically being used as corporate contractors
let's join the army and do something with our lives!
1 tag
Inner Voice
you probably aren't looking for the kinds of things on my blog, though
listening to frank now
they're a pretty wide variety of cultures and stuff
and genres
reminds me of the beer commercial with hugh hefner
hm
i don't know many commercials
good for you
commercials are stinky generlly
mess with your inner voice
at least they try
bastards
geez, i talk so much
now that's an interesting statement
...
i'd like to know what you mean by that
oh
"mess with your inner voice"
well, i meant that they plant tunes in your head, for instance, that make you remember that product they were trying to sell, and then... apparently.. some people go and buy that product when the need arises, because they remember that song
ahhhhhhhhhhh yes
i understand now
: )
yes, it's very bad
most people don't realize how intensely they've been programmed
yes, but it also teaches a lesson about not trusting inner voices
they're not necessarily yours
hmmm that's true
you just have to look
i never thought of it like that
yeah
but then... where's the line between "my own" and "others"
?
your own are usually the ones with the best intentions, and speak the softest
if you can call them your own at all
but... if "theirs" came from outside... exactly
intentions must be the key
what do i want to make "my own"
yes, i think so
and what is unworthy of me
i like tht
what would be good to act on, and what wouldn't be
what a thing - everything i am.... came from outside me.
i never really felt it so clearly as i do now
i have to save this conversation somewhere.
October 2011
1 post
Jinkies
or scramble them with some cheese
* n|ne gives up
the chinese elements, Friday, are Earth, Water, Fire (note the correspondence)... and metal and wood.
I'm going to search my freezer and fridge and cupboards now.
buh bye!
good luck Anima
o/
no air?
may your quest yield yummy results!
no, Friday, but... in the I-Ching (the only one of a handful of ancient classics to survive til modern times) there are three additional elemental ideas, one of which is Wind.
i see
no, that's not true
it's not an elemental idea
i take it back
* n|ne slaps my sleepy head
it's not an element at all
no, there's no element for air
i was thinking of something else
in the i-ching, there are eight thingies, but they're nothing to do with "elements" - sorry
okay
yeah, it's weird, isn't it?
no Air
do you consider yourself a taoist?
air isn't considered an element
air should be elemental
i dunno, Friday
whats your doubt?
* The_Hatter (Joker^@AE073F.0F1C00.C0D0BE.A2478C) has joined #tao
* ChanServ sets mode +a #tao The_Hatter
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to The_Hatter
well, it's not a doubt... it's just... those elements in chinese tradition aren't really meant to be taken as themselves - they each represent ideas
they're more like mnemonics
hi The_Hatter
welcome back
hello n|ne, thanks Fri
i think it's just a way of looking at things
you don't necessarily need Air in the list if whatever Air represents is covered by something else
yes
but it is?
i don't know anything about the western elements
* ElephantMan is now known as Loki
Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, right?
yes
i dunno what they mean - did the people historically believe that everything was actually made of these things?
yes
the first philosophers
so it was more like chemistry
whereas, in the east, those things were just taken as conceptual ideas, rather than ingredients
the greek philosophers gave it an idea too
like Empedocles
the greeks
I think Aristotle conceived those elements in a rather "conceptual" way as well
and the elements correspong to a god
yeah... probably the smart guys took it as ideas.. the stupid population took it literally (probably in both east and west)
air for example with zeus
for example his physics was famous for claiming that heavy object tend to fall because they try to reach the Earth, which is the natural incarnation of "heaviness"
i remember that
* Loki has quit (Quit: Reason filtered)
so, I guess he was being very very conceptual
which is a synonym for guessing
well, what he said isn't wrong
the explanations now are more complex
i like elemental philosophy
better suited for more accurate predictions
but not really any closer to the real truth
if such a thing exists
as far as describing reality is concerned, I think there's been a vast improvement
and I also thing that Aristotle wasn't right about much
there's been a vast improvement in our ability to predict
and prediction comes from accurate descriptions
if our descriptions weren't better than Aristotle's there would have been no improvement at all
there's been a widening of the areas where we can predict
is a car better than a horse?
this doesn't pertain the question at hand
oh, i see
well, then, i withdraw the question
that is at most a technological issue, I believe
you might ask whether it's better more chemistry or Aristotle's theory of the five elements
more = modern*
my point is, if you gave aristotle a car, he couldn't get anywhere with it.
mmm
nope... I can't see the point
lol
maybe I stepped in the convo too soon
* n|ne hugs The_Hatter
lol
who's Empedocles?
a philosopher
one of the first greek philosopher
no, i think he was italian
I knew he was born in a Greek colony in Sicily
though I may be mistaken
sicily yes
I studied him a looong time ago
me too
he described the 4 elements as spiritual essences too along with physical manifestations
these were the philosophers I studied first in high school and I was 100% sure philosophy courses would have sucked
* NineAneOneHalf (chatzilla@ED0186.03C53B.5DC97A.D8B4A8) has joined #tao
hi NAOH
lol
hi
is it 9 *and* ½?
lol
* NineAneOneHalf is now known as NinePoint5
nice
: D
that's unequivocal, I believe
lol
anyway
in chinese tradition, the five elements each create one of the others
makes sense
like in a chain?
fire produces earth, earth produces metal, metal produces water, water produces wood, and wood produces fire.
does that happen in western tradition with Fire, Air, Water, and... what's the other? oh Earth
then what was the first element to come into existence?
yo
lol
wb Anima
hello Anima
thx
hi
'cause there must have been a first, right?
wood and water produces air
actually, The_Hatter, i think in taoist tradition, none created one, one created two, two created three, and three created 10000 (meaning everything)
none created one... mmm
well... this is surely very poetical
is "a speck exploded into everything" more comforting to you?
: D
absolutely not
lol
* n|ne waits for the novel The_Hatter is almost certainly writing
haha
lol
* n|ne giggle
awwww
i was wrong
* n|ne snaps
you guys got me thinking about the universe
my apologies
i was watching Star Trek with my family when i was about 8 years old
yes, to empedocles, the interaction of the elements govern the nature
it was the beginning where he says "Space... the final frontier"
and my parents started talking about... how could space NOT be the final frontier - if the universe were in a box, what would be outside that box? More space
it could well be time
* n|ne shrugs
I mean... I can think of superpowers fighting for the control over time
i think that's how chinese 5 elements are intended to be looked at, Friday
that's a frontier
like empedocles said
it's all so strange
you never get anywhere thinking about it
i know!
it annoys me a lot
lol
i can't ask anyone questions
well, it fascinates me
because nobody knows
i get in a strange state of consciousness when i think too much about it
yeah, but there's not really much to think about because you've got nothing to go on
yeah, me too
what exactly is the question?
like, if there was a big bang... WHERE did it happen?
i don't like that state of consciosness
why was there "space" in the first place?
i likke
i like that state of consciousness
Hatter the questions are all the usual ones about the universe
like
what was before big bang?
where did it all come from initially?
where's my money?
lol
lol
* n|ne has changed the topic to: what was before big bang?
* : Unknown command
* : Unknown command
doh
it would be so cool if we could ever know
I do believe modern cosmology provides answers for a lot of the usual questions like n|ne's "where did the big bang happen?"
Anima's ones a bit tougher, since there's no agreed-upon answer yet
not to my satisfaction, The_Hatter
* n|ne has changed the topic to: what was before big bang? where did it all come from initially? where's my money?
you can think of the Big Bang has happening everywhere in space at the same time, since space at the time was rather small
if "space" has a size, what's outside of it?
don't say "time" - that makes no sense
was there vacuum before the particles exploded into it?
yes!
good question
the very idea of "outside" doesn't make sense out of space
was there "nothing" somewhere?
exactly
the very idea of "outside" doesn't make sense out of space
so "space" or "nothing" must have been there
but why would it be there at all?
WHY IS ANYTHING ANYWHERE!?!?
* n|ne feels that funny feeling
somebody make a joke! Quick!
i can't
the usual answer is contained in the Lambda-CDM model and it briefly says that space was originally filled with a very special Higgs field (known as inflaton field) that has a non-zero lower energy level that triggered spontaneously an inflation (that looked like a baaaang)
from this spontaneous explosion of energy (transformed from potential field energy to actual energy) all particles were formed through usual processes studied in particle physics
this is all reverse logic
damn the physics
now... why that Higgs inflaton field was there is still disputed
the ballon that loses air and gets blown up again all the time?
you could follow that trail of bread crumbs forever, The_Hatter, and never get to the beginning
n|ne: it has to be reverse logic. This Higgs inflaton field was "invented" and is predicted by inflationary cosmology exactly because it fits what we observe today. We're looking for it because if it were there we would indeed observe what we observe today
or is the explosion=to the inflation?
Anima: the model of the universe growing and shrinking again was one of the Friedman models and nowadays is not considered accurate anymore (except by some string-physicists that, I don't know why, still find the idea to be working despite evidence)
it's an infinite loop, The_Hatter - you can always count one number highter. you can always find one particle smaller. there's always another point between any two points.
yes, the Big Bang theory simply predicted that some kind of process set the galaxies in motion. Now, after inflation, we know it's been an inflationary process
n|ne: very likely so
isn't an inflation when something shrinks?
nope, it's when something grows exponentially
that's contraction
inflation is expansion
: p
defaltion is contraction
when you breathe in, your lungs inflate
makes slightly more sense now
i'll think of money inflation and remember the word
heh
how many miles big or millimeters big was the Higgs field, Hatter?
* NinePoint5 is now known as Zoinks
the fact is n|ne, that these are not lazy abstraction, as it would seem. The idea of an Higgs inflaton fields helps explain why the space is locally flat, why we observe wrinkles in the microwave background radiation and maybe even why the proportion between matter, dark matter and dark energy are as they are
Could there be more Higg's fields in the universe now or is there some way to detect them?
mmm... I am not sure I understand the first question
the Higgs fields (there are many) are supposed to permeate all space-time
What does that mean?
the only way to detect them is to find the particles that transmit them, which are Higgs bosons
it means that the Higgs fields are everywhere
(or at least are thought to be everywhere)
transmit them to where?
it's just one way of looking at things - suitable to one set of purposes.
through space-time
i feel angry
because i don't understand
* n|ne hugs and pats Anima
okay, what's the question?
where the Higgs bosons go?
100000000
i don't even know wha a boson is
i'm going to think of it as a green car
it's a type of elementary particle
lol
and where is it going?
it goes from everywhere to everywhere in space-time
like all fields do
and i don't understand, do all the bosons contain a universe but in potential energy state form at the moment?
it moves from a source to a pit in the field
bosons don't contain universes : -S
does it move randomly?
Higgs field=bosons?
no, they follow usual laws of interaction
so a "field" (in physics) is a mathematical idea, right?
bosons are the particles that transmit forces: ie they constitute the fields
* n|ne needs some basics
no, fields are thought to be real entities
constituted by real particles, known as bosons
i always thought a field was like the lines on a graph
could you draw a boson hatter?
and the representations on that graph
no, I cannot, Anima
n|ne: fields can be represented graphically in many ways
so how many bosons in one higgs field?
lol
well... that depends on the intensity of the field
how many in the one that became the universe?
a bit like lots of electrons generate lots of electricity
I have no idea
why couldn't other higgs fields become universes?
i'm sorry, i can't help but think of fields and bosons as mathematics
mmmm... let's clarify one thing, Anima: the inflaton field didn't become a universe
it caused the space-time fabric of the universe he was originally in to expand
lol scott, to me they are green cars ^^ and the higgs fields are traffic
but it didn't create the universe
heh
i like that
n|ne: you're not the only one
I am very sympathetic of the mathematical-only interpretation of modern physics
if a boson is a "particle", wouldn't it have a shape?
even if it's a dot?
yes, it would have a shape
inflation field=higgs field?
okay
so there was a universe
the inflaton field (*inflaton* is not a typo!) is one of many Higgs fields
yes
and in this universe there were many higgs fields
yes
one of them was called the inflaton field
as you can imagine this raises MANY questions
yes
and it caused the universe to go kabooom
this particular one exploded one day
and when it exploded it caused time
it "exploded" because of a very peculiar property that is a non-zero lower energy state
no
time was already there
what did it cause?
* Simply-Me has quit (Connection closed)
this Higgs inflaton field is merely a way of explaining why something like a big bang is now observable
it caused space-time to expand
a lot
okay
but... in the end... it all comes down to some mathematical equations Doctor Higgs did, right?
so say the universe was the size of an apple before the inflation
how big was it afterwards?
absolutely, n|ne. No experimental confirmation so far
i expect one day they'll confirm it
I don't exactly remember the proportions of the expansion, Anima. I am sorry
then someone will come up with some more math
I am afraid you will have to google that
sure, n|ne
it never ends
did you study this on your own or in school hatter?
and what's most important, physicist will never be unemployed!
September 2011
1 post
any-ism
my brother in law just lost his job
the company where he used to work went bankrupt
everyone is losing their job in this economy
yeah, it's hard times
it's really hard
he has mortgage to pay a car to pay
electricity to pay, garbage, internet, he might lose it all
and who wins if he loses his house?
i don't know
who'll get the house?
the bank
and who got all the interest he's paid so far on the house?
the bank
and who gets "bailed out" if they should happen to lose any money on any deal they make? and who PRINTS THE MONEY to give out the loan in the first place?
yeah, the bank.
it makes my blood boil.
yeah
scary stuff
he has a section of the house rented
he will collect money of unemployment
from unemployment
unemployment benefits
but still if he doesn't get a job they could lose it all because unemployment benefits are temporary
i wish i knew what to do
there's nothing just a few people can do
so do you think capitalism is good?
with the way things are going for everyone do you still think capitalism is good?
i don't think it's the "ism" that matters - it's how much the people (the masses) pay attention and act on what they see.
capitalism would be fine if people were enlightened
communism would be fine if people were enlightened
hell, a monarchy would be fine if people were enlightened
even a dictatorship
there's no form of government that's safe by itself
the only way to be safe from danger is to be aware of the danger and act accordingly
and very few people in the world are willing to see what's real
people see what they want to see - until it's too late.
August 2011
1 post
anatta
i'm not really here, actually
i'm working
argh
okay
lol but i just happened to check the window
cool
lucky me
lol lucky, i guess...
i usually don't keep it open during the day
but i received a strange and urgent request via email
i see i see
whats the time nwo over there
to meet and chat
huh?
what request was that?
lol
from whom?
it's 2pm here
from a Mysterious Chatter!
* MACARIUS (MACARIUS@17A9C1.708C48.0A043B.F5E172) has joined #Buddhism
you know him?
unfortunately, this mysterious chatter never showed up
and yeah, i know the person
just don't know what game i'm being involved in
silly world
humm
silly world full of silly games
but i'm happy to play when i can
i dont know too
its somebody from our icq chat probably
just believe whatever they want you to believe
and maybe i can even guess
it's easy
* JohnC (JohnC@E9EA8C.4737D8.B8E727.47454B) has joined #Buddhism
lol
* Nobody- (Nobody-@69D76E.E49135.C9F753.95C4DF) has joined #Buddhism
well
once i trust someone i do that yes
i dont doubt much
don't bother guessing - I'll just say Yes to every guess you make
got it, it stays a secret
i do it to everyone
i figure... if they need to be believed... go ahead and believe them
it can't hurt me to believe them, right?
i dont know if it can or not
it can only hurt me how i act
i mean
How i act is the only thing that can hurt me
* idomeneus sets channel limit to 24
i think i understand
its difficult sometimes
well,i don't provide that service to just anyone
especially if you built up strong connections with someone on the other side of the world
only the ones i like
yep
so... if someone i like on the other side of the world wants me to believe he's a nuclear physicist.. why not?
im a lot like you in that regard i think
i have few doubts with the people i like
i need no prove
if he is then revealed as a phony and wants me to like him anyway... why not? i never liked him for the fact he was a nuclear physicist, anyway - if i like someone, it's something else - not facts they want me to believe
damn right :)
:)
you're a smart guy, anatta
or... gal...
those words were yours
as the case may be
guy is correct
ya, but there aren't a lot of people who could comprehend them
and a lot fewer who'd not object to them
* Nobody- (Nobody-@69D76E.E49135.C9F753.95C4DF) has left #Buddhism ("Leaving")
(the words, i mean)
yeah
similar stuff happened for me, so i can understand what you say
once i love a person, it doesnt matter what happens, or what they do, there is hardly something they can do that makes me run away
there's one requirement, though, for this philosophy to work
you have to really be careful how you act
externally and internally, too
thats the thing
i think im just figuring it out
if you can share something on how that works for you, im listening
hehe
* n|ne thinking
difficult matter, i know
i guess the key is to not want anything from the other
just accept what you get without wanting any more
accept their presence or behavior or ... i dunno... whatever it is about them you like...
and not crave more.
you hit the point
i'm thinking there's probably more
but i'm not sure exactly what it is
i think its pretty much this
i think, whatever more there is, it still falls under this category
yes
there are so many things we can want that don't seem like "things we want"
oh yeah
what do I get out of "being friends with a Nuclear Physicist"?
i mean, besides the wonderful fun he is to chat with?
or let's make him an astronaut
or a billionaire sheik
or a movie star
whatever
i think there is more than fun to true human relations
for me people like this are a great source of inspiration sometimes
well, i expect "fun" is a result of that 'something more'
probably the feeling of "love" is a result of 'something way more'
am i making sense
?
lol
i think so hehe
i think connecting to people (or somtimes animals, and maybe even other things) is tied into the meaning of life
love, maybe the most valuable quality there is
and a "connection to people" can manifest itself as fun, or love, or whatever
i think that
you know i think usually we dont really recognize the value of this
in times when we seem to have plenty
but when you are really really down and empty
ya
even the smile of a stranger can work wonders
:)
i agree completely
say! we should right a book!
lol
hehehe :D
i haven't read such things in any self-help or spiritual-guru type books
of course, i haven't read many of those
i've thumbed through quite a few
yeah i see
well im not a reader either
though ive read mostly buddhist things
i like some buddhist things
and some taoist things
there is a lot of truth that we have naturally within us i think
ya
its kind of weird even sometimes, how answers can come to you
i have felt a lot like this in times when i was talking a lot about buddhism here in the chat
i was never a great scholar or reader regarding buddhist material but it always seemed clear to me
yeah, i think these things trigger understandings that we already have - like something we'd forgotten, and then a sound or sight triggers the memory
* MACARIUS has quit (XMLSocket Connection closed)
i really believe so
and, of course, a thick and heavy ego can really mask such natural insights
probably why "enlightened" people seem so smart and impressive :D
its kind of a state of mind that makes things clear. i think you just need to be detached from views and thoughts to see clearly
hehe yeah :)
yeah, i agree - detached from views/thoughts
Dayum! We are a couple of smart sons-a-bitches!
haha
oh dear
i'd better get some lunch and do some work
before my new client starts whining or pitching a fit
or worse
* n|ne shudders
okay :D
see you later, anatta
was great to talk to you nine
see you
don't you come in late anymore?
what time is it there?
well its quite late already. 21:43
ahhh that explains it
i'll have to drop in during the day more often lol
anyway
ttyl
