Rabbits, Mice, and Fleas

Gaze on my Sadness

<Guest_339> gaze
<Wednesday> haha
<Guest_339> haha
<Guest_339> do u respect gaze
<Guest_339> or no
<Wednesday> lol
<Guest_339> ??
<Wednesday> i neither respect nor disrespect that particular classification.
<Guest_339> oh
<Guest_339> so
<Wednesday> ask me about an individual who's gay and I'll answer for that one only.
<Guest_339> if u are talking to a gay
<Guest_339> do u mind?
<Wednesday> lol
<Wednesday> one of my favorite chatters is gay.
<Wednesday> how's that?
<Guest_339> is it a problem
<Guest_339> cool
<Guest_339> i feel relaxed now
<Guest_339> dude
<Guest_339> i was scared and shy 
<Guest_339> lol
<Wednesday> about what?
<Guest_339> maybe u not wanting to chat with me
<Wednesday> as you wish lol
<Guest_339> lol
<Guest_339> so
<Guest_339> how old r u
<Wednesday> 44
<Wednesday> and you?
<Guest_339> 17
<Guest_339> u like my age?
<Wednesday> i dunno lol
<Guest_339> lol
<Guest_339> u have kids?
<Wednesday> i guess it's a fine age
 * Wednesday sighs
<Wednesday> yes, i do
<Guest_339> aw
<Guest_339> how old
<Wednesday> i have three kids - a girl 18, a boy 17, and a boy 14
<Guest_339> aw
<Guest_339> so ur boy is my age
<Wednesday> seems so
<Guest_339> hey can i ask u a serious thing?
<Wednesday> you can ask
<Guest_339> would u kick out ur son out of home if u knew he is gay? :(
<Wednesday> lol
<Wednesday> no
<Wednesday> that's pretty pathetic
<Guest_339> hm
<Guest_339> ur a good dad
<Guest_339> well..
<Wednesday> but if i were that kind of person... it's be ME with the problem. not my kid.
<Guest_339> hm
<Guest_339> it happened to me :(
<Wednesday> yeah, i kinda guessed you were going to say that.
<Guest_339> hm
<Guest_339> :(
<Guest_339> u know
<Guest_339> i really feel
<Guest_339> bad
<Guest_339> i feel i dont have a daddy
<Guest_339> :S
<Guest_339> i dont know i feel reall sad
<Guest_339> i never done any bed :(
<Guest_339> bad
<Wednesday> yeah, it's a sad thing
<Guest_339> hm
<Guest_339> its been
<Guest_339> like
<Guest_339> 2 years
<Guest_339> he never spoke to me and never saw me after that day
<Guest_339> he doesnt want to see me even :(
<Guest_339> he really sad bad shit about me that day
<Guest_339> fuck i really cry when i remember :(
<Wednesday> the ones we love always hurt us the most
<Guest_339> hm
<Guest_339> imagine
<Guest_339> i was 15 
<Guest_339> and i had to live on my own
<Guest_339> :(
<Guest_339> do ur kids live with u ?
<Wednesday> no, with their mom
<Guest_339> aw why
<Guest_339> why do i feel i really want a hug from u know an older guy
<Wednesday> lol
<Wednesday> it wouldn't help you
<Guest_339> what should i do
<Wednesday> maybe meditation would help you.
<Guest_339> help me with what
<Guest_339> can u be my daddy ?
<Wednesday> lol
<Wednesday> i'm pretty sure i can't give you what you're looking for.
<Guest_339> ?
<Guest_339> yes u can
<Guest_339> can u take care of me
<Wednesday> i don't see how.
<Guest_339> ?
<Guest_339> just make me feel am not alone
<Guest_339> :(
<Wednesday> well, i can talk to you.
<Wednesday> that's about all.
<Wednesday> i seriously doubt whether you want the kind of conversation I'm capable of giving, though.
<Guest_339> can u call me
<Wednesday> lol
<Guest_339> son?
<Wednesday> i don't even know you, sonny boy.
<Guest_339> :(
<Guest_339> u dont know how much am sad
<Wednesday> your attention is too internalized.
<Wednesday> you look inside, find your bad memories.
<Guest_339> what u mean
<Wednesday> you pick them up and hold them and let them make you feel sad.
<Wednesday> you dwell on them and wish and dream.
<Wednesday> then you cry because your wishes and dreams don't come true.
<Wednesday> so you do it all over again.
<Guest_339> :(
<Wednesday> it's your choice.
<Guest_339> what should i do
<Guest_339> tell me what to do
<Wednesday> put your attention outside yourself.
<Wednesday> look out into the world.
<Guest_339> like how
<Guest_339> tell me
<Guest_339> u r 44
<Guest_339> am still young
<Guest_339> teach me 
<Wednesday> find art... politics... charity... sports...
<Wednesday> lol
<Wednesday> i'm teaching, man. i'm teaching.
<Guest_339> a bf?
<Wednesday> but to be successfus, you have to adopt the lesson.
<Wednesday> i think you should start with things you can control, to be honest.
<Wednesday> a bf is a free agent
<Guest_339> so
<Wednesday> it's more likely to give you pain, the condition you're in now.
<Guest_339> its not good to have a bf
<Wednesday> i didn't say that
<Wednesday> it'll be good for you when you're stronger
<Wednesday> it's bad for you now, while you're weak.
<Wednesday> first, find something you can control.
<Wednesday> pick anything.
<Wednesday> what interests you?
<Guest_339> sports?
<Guest_339> soccer
<Wednesday> ok
<Wednesday> do you play?
<Guest_339> yea
<Guest_339> when i get hit
<Guest_339> i start crying :(
<Wednesday> well... maybe you should try something gentler.
<Guest_339> they call me sissy :(
<Wednesday> oh, and then you stash that away with all your sadness, so you can take it out again and again.
<Guest_339> ?
<Guest_339> it even ended
<Wednesday> i don't mean to sound cruel
<Guest_339> up
<Guest_339> peeing on me :(
<Guest_339> all these dicks
<Wednesday> wth? 
<Wednesday> you should file a complaing. a lawsuit, even.
<Wednesday> complaint*
<Guest_339> they threatened me
<Guest_339> dude
<Guest_339> they told me dare u tell anyone
<Guest_339> why is that
<Guest_339> is it 
<Guest_339> that i have blonde hair and blue eyes
<Guest_339> :(
<Guest_339> ?
<Guest_339> ???
<Wednesday> i dunno what to say.
<Wednesday> you're determined to be sad.
<Wednesday> i can't help you. 
<Guest_339> ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
<Guest_339> ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
<Guest_339> ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
<Guest_339> ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
<Guest_339> ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
<Guest_339> ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
<Guest_339> ur fucked to be a whore i fucked ur mother u dickehad gay whore uur mothe is my btich
<Guest_339> fuck u asshole gay whore
<Guest_339> ur mother is my sluty bithc
<Guest_339> and u r such a gay
<Guest_339> dickhead
<Guest_339> whore
<Wednesday> haha
<Guest_339> fuck u asshole
<Wednesday> i've been waiting for that!
<Wednesday> rofl
* Guest_339 has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)

Mindfulness, Emotion, and Necessary Lessons

<Amy_> What do you need?
<Scott> what i told you earlier
<Scott> about the tension
<Scott> watching it all happen makes me tense, so i need to learn why and correct tht
<Scott> a great soldier is never aggressive; a good fighter is never angry;
<Scott> maybe a good ~ is never tense
<Amy_> lol
<Amy_> Tense is not bad you know. It signals that there is a problem. And it signals that solutions can be devised.
<Scott> i don't have a problem with emotions - only with letting them control me
<Amy_> Your emotions are turned inwards.
<Scott> i don't know what that means
 * Amy_ has quit (Connection closed)
<Amy_> I meant that, I think, it's a theory, your emotions are um, how to explain. You order your emotions inwards. Inside of you. It's a very strong aspect of you. You have to have order in your own emotions. And only after that are you precoccupied to deal with the outside world.
<Scott> it's more like this: I used to act immediately on my emotions, and the result was that my world was ripped apart.
<Scott> i ruined a lot
<Amy_> Yes, because you neglected ordering your emotions inside, maybe.
<Scott> i suspect that overcoming the effects of the tension will come from understanding its cause and will have the effect of disapating the tension in these kinds of situations
<Amy_> Tension, like pain is a warning.
<Scott> yes, i understand your point
<Scott> but if i don't need the warning, maybe i won't have to feel it so much.
<Scott> for example...
<Scott> for example, yesterday i was cooking on my griddle
<Scott> i touched the back of the griddle to move it forward and, instantly remembering that this could be foolish, pulled my hand away
<Scott> it's a good thing, too, because the metal was very hot
<Scott> the pain didn't come for over a second, but it was severe
<Scott> had i waited for the pain, i'd have taken serious damage to my finger
<Scott> as it was, it hurt for quite a while, but didn't blister
<Scott> the pain was bearable
<Scott> so... yes, we learn from pain, and from tension, to avoid the circumstances that cause them, or to move properly to minimize any damage
<Scott> the end.
<Scott> lol
<Amy_> Yes.
<Amy_> Exactly.
<Amy_> Lol.
<Amy_> But you want to get rid of that tension.
<Amy_> But you see the outer problems based on how much it affects your feelings.
<Scott> i also want to develope the mindfulness that keeps me from touching the hot metal in the first place.
<Scott> develop
<Amy_> Hm, okay.
<Scott> :) you understand
<Scott> you're right though - it's good that we can't just cut off the things we don't like. they're there to teach us.

The Guru and the Child who Loved Sweets

<huzecue> well.. a couple went to their guru asking for help ..to cure their child of his obsession with sweets
<huzecue> the guru asked 'em to return after a few weeks... 
<huzecue> cause the parents requested him to speak to the child
<huzecue> after a few days the guru called 'em and asked to bring the child and spoke to him.. 
<huzecue> the child cured.. asked why they were asked to return after a few days, the guru said that he'd to first of all work on himself, for he was as well a lover of sweets!

What is our one demand?

<LadyMarmalade> where is the topic?
<nine> oh
<nine> it's gone
<nine> i'll find it
* nine has changed the topic to: http://fryeblog.blog.lib.mcmaster.ca/files/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-poster.jpg 
<nine> My current favorite picture in the world
<LadyMarmalade> it's awesome
<nine> i think it's very beautiful and really stands for the state of the world in a weird way
<nine> I keep thinking how fast that monstrous, raging bull must be going - jerking around, accelerating in all directions, all that raw, mad, unbridled power; smoke all around, PeaceKeepers marching in behind; But there on top, calm, poised, tender, elegant, disciplined, she magically keeps her place.
<nine> The bull can't shake her any more than he could shake watchful eyes resting on him, following him wherever he goes.
<LadyMarmalade> ooh
<LadyMarmalade> really
<LadyMarmalade> yes it is this way
<nine> What is our one demand?
<nine> I say, our one demand should be not to the 1%, but to the 99% - Watch. Never stop watching. Pay attention. Speak out. Do Your Part in Democracy!!!
<nine> You have no idea what i'm talking about, huh?
<nine> lol
<LadyMarmalade> lol
<LadyMarmalade> I do
<LadyMarmalade> have a clue
<nine> someday i'll make a speech in front of a huge crowd.

And a dish-washer.

<MrChips> i got a new lawn mower
<MrChips> a zero turn
<MrChips> its fast
<n|ne> nice
<n|ne> i sure could use a big mower where i am
<n|ne> and a tiller
<n|ne> and a tractor
<n|ne> and three gorgeous redheads
<n|ne> and a gibson SG
<n|ne> and a wicked cool space ship like Serenety or the millennium falcon
<n|ne> and a working chainsaw
<n|ne> and a personal seceretary to keep track of all my receipts and do my taxes and get good tax breaks for me and keep track of where all my stuff is because i fucking lose everything - i just set it down and then i can't find it - and to make sure i pay all my bills on time and don't get overdrawn (because i always forget to pay stuff) and to make sure i'm eating healthy especially when i'm traveling a lot (because i tend to eat potato chips and candy bars for too many meals when I'm traveling) and to read to me aloud from whichever books i pick while i'm doing things like gardening or dishes.

The Comfort of Hell

<mipsy> oh yeah, you know what i dreamt? i dreamt i went swimming in a pool, and i was drifting along for a bit, under the water, in de middle part of the pool, when i noticed some women, floating around, aimlessly, lost, then i went deeper under the water, to the bottom, and you know what was there? hell, and i realized, that there was a certain comfort and allure to being there, and that if i wasn't careful i could never again rise to the surface, at that moment my fear jolted me up, up!! and as i resurfaced, i was so relieved.... that's it!
  <n|ne> wow
  <n|ne> that's a pretty amazing dream
  <n|ne> i love the bit about "certain comfort"
  <mipsy> yeah, i thought so too! that's why i remembered
  <n|ne> so true, isn't it?
  <mipsy> yeah

The Old Master Fights

<MystiqueEnigma> There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him. 
<MystiqueEnigma> One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent. 
<MystiqueEnigma> He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move. 
<MystiqueEnigma> Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior's challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind.
<MystiqueEnigma> But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed. 
<MystiqueEnigma> Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. "How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?"
<MystiqueEnigma> "If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it," the master replied, "to whom does the gift belong?"

Mindfulness and Consciousness

<Scott> people talk about mindfullness as if it's something a person can do...
<Scott> but something under there is strongly fighting against ME being "mindful"
<Scott> i can't just decide to be mindful
<Scott> i'm not in control of that.
<Scott> i can grasp it for a moment or two
<[empty]> You can still practice it.
<[empty]> Grasp might not be the best approach
<Scott> that's my point
<[empty]> With ongoing practice, there's no need to grasp.
<[empty]> It grows ever more natural.
<Scott> that doesn't seem to be the case for me
<[empty]> How do you practice?
<Scott> mindfulness only comes when i work, or chat, or attempt to keep it.
<[empty]> When doesn't it come?
<Scott> with work, it's variable. it comes a while, and i'm mindful of my work, but sometimes it doesn't stay long, and my mind wanders - other times i work very successfully.
<Scott> with chat, i'm always right here. i never daydream. my mind is fully on the conversations i'm having... the situation at hand.
<[empty]> Hm...
<Scott> in life, though... my mind wonders constantly. cleaning the house, cooking, living, playing, gardening...
<[empty]> The way I see it, mindfulness extends beyond the mind being fully on something.
<Scott> always always, i'm in a daydream, until i think "i want to be mindful"
<Scott> so i practice... try to grasp it.
<Scott> it's my only option now, i think.
<[empty]> Do you see the subtle ways you affect others and others affect you?
<Scott> i see how the conversation here went... since i said i stole the neurology book.
<Scott> i guess i don't understand that question
<[empty]> With your work, do you see how your effort translates into the task and the task reverberates back outward to you?
<[empty]> Mindfulness includes the exchange.
<Scott> exchanging what?
<[empty]> Influence.
 * Simply-Me has quit (Connection closed)
<Scott> I see that in chat
<Scott> not in work
<Scott> work is like a puzzle i solve. like soduku or a croissword puzzle.
<Scott> i don't see it in life, either. i don't see how doing dishes influences me.
<[empty]> You add or contribute something to a task, and it in turn provides some utility to another person, or to a future self. In doing so, it may return to you by way of a sense of accomplishment, or frustration. Burden, relief.
<Scott> oh
<Scott> well, then... i guess i do see it in work and in dishes.
<Scott> it seems just like routine, though, in those cases... so maybe it's not mindfulness.
<Scott> well, clearly i don't understand what's really meant by mindfullness.
<[empty]> Tough call.
<Scott> i thought it was presence of mind... 
<[empty]> That, but not merely that.
<Scott> i think when my mind is wondering, lost in a daydream, or planning the future or remembering the past, i'm not mindful.
<Scott> that's been my belief, anyway.
<[empty]> If just presence of mind, it could be just as easily called attention.
<Scott> yes
<Scott> i always thought that if i could pay attention to the fact that i'm paying attention, i could learn someting. but this never lasts long.
<Scott> i'm paying attention, then... isuddenly realize that i've been daydreaming for quite some time.
<[empty]> In the contemplative traditions I've been trained in (Chan, Dao, Rujia), we tend to extend presence of mind to awareness of all the ripples in the water.
<[empty]> It encompasses the former in all its richness, but includes an additional element.
<Scott> i guess i don't understand. i thought you'd say more.
<[empty]> Oh.
<[empty]> I'm sorry.
<Scott> ahhh
<Scott> lol it's ok :)
<Scott> take your time
<[empty]> With the Dao, as you know, dualities are reconciled.
<[empty]> Opposites interact mutually.
<Scott> right
<[empty]> A stone in water causes ripples on the surface.
<[empty]> And in turn, liquid erodes rock.
<Scott> hmm... well, i know that in theory... don't really understand how it relates to life (other than the obvious)
<[empty]> Something so soft can slowly dissolve something so hard. And something solid will displace the liquid around it.
<Scott> yes
<Scott> that i get... principles like that
<[empty]> The interactions, exchanges we encounter in daily life work the same way.
<Scott> yes, i understand that
<[empty]> Mind may seems so individual. Sometimes rigid, sometimes bending. People tend to think of it as confined, a totally internal process.
<[empty]> One can develop mindfulness of what is occuring at this moment, but this is not mindfulness it all its fullness (and emptiness).
<[empty]> To see how this moment is not just one instant in time, but instead a continuum over which all things are stretched, takes it one step further.
<[empty]> This moment is not isolated. This mind is not separate from the world outside.
<[empty]> This moment flows into the next. This mind's activities spill over into the lives of others.
<[empty]> The exchange becomes increasingly clear.
<[empty]> The Buddha taught emptiness as the interconnectedness of all things.
<Scott> it seems very obvious to me when i think about it, thought it's not always on my mind
<[empty]> Things are empty of anything purely "self" in nature. They do not stand alone. They are not isolated.
<Scott> yes.. i agree.. everything in my brain came from outside, one way or another
<Scott> and every action i make influences soemthing outside... i get your ripple effect now.
<Scott> i understand, i think.
<[empty]> Laozi taught the interrelatedness of things that appear opposite and irreconcilable. Kongzi taught the interrelatedness of relationships, familial, communal, and political.
<[empty]> (Laozi is how we say Lao-tzu and Kongzi is how we say Confucius)
<Scott> syes
<Scott> i should say that, too
<Scott> laozi
<Scott> it's easier to type
<Scott> i didn't know kongzi is confucius
<[empty]> Zi is an honorific.
<Scott> yes
<[empty]> Zhuangzi, Laozi, Kongzi.
<Scott> i read Lao Tzu = "Old Master"
<[empty]> Yes!
<Scott> well, i agree to all this completely, and i see it clearly wehn i think about it.
<Scott> still.. i feel discontent with the control my subconscious exerts over my actions
<[empty]> :(
<Scott> well, it's not that bad
<Scott> i mean, it's not destroying my life
<Scott> or even damaging, any more
<Scott> it destroyed my marriage
<[empty]> I'm sorry it had that effect. :(
<Scott> thanks, but
<Scott> i understand that it takes some pain to learn some lessons
<[empty]> The path is not an easy one.
<Scott> i just want to... learn without pain from now on
<Scott> my subconscious frustrates me frequently 
<Scott> i'll walk away from somehting on the stove, and completely forget
<Scott> it burns
<[empty]> Same goes for relationships sometimes.
<Scott> i feel frustrated. this happens over and over. i say "ok, it's on the stove, i'll grab my glasses and come right back"
<Scott> i promise myself to keep things where they belong, not just set them anywhere... but it doesn't work. i'm constantly loooking for things. my phone, glasses, pen...
<Scott> whatever
<Scott> sometimes i feel that there's a little demon in me trying to sabotage my day
<Scott> also, yes, in relating to people, i'm often not at my best
<[empty]> I know I've asked it before, but do you maintain a daily meditation practice?
<[empty]> This might help.
<Scott> it's ineffective
<Scott> i daydream
<Scott> yes, i do try
<[empty]> Have you received instruction from a teacher?
<Scott> but it's no different from saying "i'll reserve half an hour per day to daydream"
<Scott> no, no teacher, just books
<Scott> i try to do vipassana 
<[empty]> Books can only do so much for us. :(
<Scott> i loove chi gong in the morning
<Scott> and lately, i'm doing tai chi in the evening

Heaven and Hell

<Fool> The old monk sat by the side of the road. With his eyes closed, his legs crossed and his hands folded in his lap, he sat. In deep meditation, he sat. 
  <Fool> Suddenly his zazen was interrupted by the harsh and demanding voice of a samurai warrior. "Old man! Teach me about heaven and hell!" 
  <Fool> At first, as though he had not heard, there was no perceptible response from the monk. But gradually he began to open his eyes, the faintest hint of a smile playing around the corners of his mouth as the samurai stood there, waiting impatiently, growing more and more agitated with each passing second. 
  <Fool> "You wish to know the secrets of heaven and hell?" replied the monk at last. "You who are so unkempt. You whose hands and feet are covered with dirt. You whose hair is uncombed, whose breath is foul, whose sword is all rusty and neglected. You who are ugly and whose mother dresses you funny. You would ask me of heaven and hell?" 
  <Fool> The samurai uttered a vile curse. He drew his sword and raised it high above his head. His face turned to crimson and the veins on his neck stood out in bold relief as he prepared to sever the monk's head from its shoulders. 
  <Fool> "That is hell," said the old monk gently, just as the sword began its descent. In that fraction of a second, the samurai was overcome with amazement, awe, compassion and love for this gentle being who had dared to risk his very life to give him such a teaching. He stopped his sword in mid-flight and his eyes filled with grateful tears. 
  <Fool> "And that," said the monk, "is heaven." 
 <Fool> : )